Mental Health Matters
Futures with John Egan
Have you ever wondered what it truly means to live a life of recovery beyond mere sobriety? Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with John Egan, a dedicated professional in substance use disorder treatment. John takes us through his personal journey from the Y2K software development era to his life-changing decision for sobriety on August 16, 2007. His story is one of trials, triumphs, and the profound realization that recovery is much more than just abstinence—it's a complete transformation involving honesty, resilience, and a deeper sense of purpose.
This episode touches on how enduring life's hardships can lead to resilience and long-term fulfillment. We share personal stories that resonate deeply, illustrating how meaningful conversations and shared experiences can shape our lives profoundly. From hidden costs in everyday life to the profound impact of daily practices, John’s insights emphasize the value of struggle and the overlooked beauty in overcoming challenges, making this episode a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone on a similar path. Prepare to be inspired as you learn how to turn past struggles into strengths and cultivate a purposeful, fulfilling life.
Have you ever wondered what it truly means to live a life of recovery beyond mere sobriety? Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with John Egan, a dedicated professional in substance use disorder treatment. John takes us through his personal journey from the Y2K software development era to his life-changing decision for sobriety on August 16, 2007. His story is one of trials, triumphs, and the profound realization that recovery is much more than just abstinence—it's a complete transformation involving honesty, resilience, and a deeper sense of purpose.
This episode touches on how enduring life's hardships can lead to resilience and long-term fulfillment. We share personal stories that resonate deeply, illustrating how meaningful conversations and shared experiences can shape our lives profoundly. From hidden costs in everyday life to the profound impact of daily practices, John’s insights emphasize the value of struggle and the overlooked beauty in overcoming challenges, making this episode a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone on a similar path. Prepare to be inspired as you learn how to turn past struggles into strengths and cultivate a purposeful, fulfilling life.
Welcome everyone once again back to Mental Health Matters with Todd Weatherly, behavioral Health Professional and Treatment Consultant. On WPBM 1037, the Voice of Asheville, I'm joined today by a gentleman named John Egan. I consider him a friend. He has been in the field for quite a while. John graduated from Loyola University in Baltimore in 1998. He looks a lot younger than he seems. He did his master's in social work from Widener University near Philadelphia, joined the Futures Behavioral Healthcare team as who is now actually their business development director. John was recognized by the Karen Foundation as an unsung hero in the field of substance use disorder treatment in 2017.
Speaker 1:John is proud of his own journey in recovery and has been sober since August 16, 2007, a very specific date and attempts to be of maximum service to all individuals and families seeking recovery. I can attest to that myself. John lives with his wife and family in West Palm Beach, where he's deeply involved in the recovery community. He enjoys snorkeling beaches, cooking, working out, playing with his dog, being with his family, philadelphia sports teams, including the Villanova Wildcats, and Star Wars, which we frequently find ourselves discussing whenever I see John. John, I'm so happy and honored that you would join me today on the show. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Todd. It's an honor to be here. It really is. You're a one of a kind.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's not necessarily a compliment, but I thank you.
Speaker 2:Right now it's a compliment. We'll see how the day plays out.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right. Well, you and I were talking a little bit beforehand and I think that it's cool, even if we only touch on the briefest of the features of your recovery how you got into the field, how you got to be a man you know in my experience, a man of deep commitment, a man of service, a man of faith and somebody who endured an experience through life that, at any moment in time, I think people would have been like, well, that's it right, like let's just give up on this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad there wasn't a casino place in odds, right, somebody was going to win, and I don't think it was me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know, I don't know, I don't know. You know, the house always wins, right? Yeah, maybe you're the house I hope so.
Speaker 2:Maybe you're the house. I hope so.
Speaker 1:Maybe you're the house. The house always wins. Somewhere in there, God shined a light on this beautiful person that I know. His name is John. He emerged and serves people in ways that are just heart-driven. Just love that piece, but please, if you will, whatever part of your story you're willing to share that got you to where you are now. If you'd be willing to share a little bit with us.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, I mean, you mentioned a very specific date. August 16th of 2007 was and it's wild, it's the language that I use is. I think there's a big difference between sobriety and what recovery is, and sobriety, to me, when I hear that, that just immediately I think abstinence. But I think the recovery journey is a whole different lifestyle. Now, mind you, it might be semantics, but there's people that I see that are in a journey and I'm kind of like thinking, well, that doesn't look very appealing and it could be only a matter of time before that.
Speaker 2:The thought of drinking or using returns because, listen, even though I was miserable using, at least I was high for a little bit and that wasn't too bad, it just wasn't the consequences that came from it. Uh, and I tell everyone, drinking and drugs work perfectly almost all the time. It just they work temporarily and the long-term solution is usually fatal. But when people are like, oh, is this all there is, I'm like, well, no, you can return, I don't recommend it, but I'm hoping that you're just not you stop using and continuing to maintain that lifestyle and the characteristics of all the manipulation and deceit and lying and dishonesty that goes with that, with those behaviors. So, um, but yeah, august 16th was the day I woke up in a hospital. Uh, the day before I thought ending my life was the best idea. I had put my loved ones through so much pain. Um, there was a moment before that pain. There was a moment before that that I was on the streets and I well, let me, I jumped ahead.
Speaker 2:I usually like to set up a little bit, just because when people, in order to be of maximum service to someone, I believe that people need to believe that you understand the depth of the pain they've been in, and then there's a weight of the freedom that you live today. And so, if I'm just sitting here, some people call me the rainbow farter, because I'm always smiling, are you always this happy? And I'm like well, kind, I mean not always, I'm human. So I have a very varying degrees of emotion, but I'm pretty optimistic. I wake up and I'm like hey, my wife's like no-transcript.
Speaker 2:1998, everyone was making a ton of money in the tech boom and I became a software developer and I was traveling the world. I found myself in London on projects in Amsterdam and Miami and Minneapolis and San Diego. Really, I mean 21 years old and I'm traveling the world on a company's dime just changing two-year to four-year digits. The idea was on January 1st of 2000,. The planes were going to fall out of the sky, so I was in that kind of piece and companies were paying a ton of money for us to do that, and so I had this bank balance.
Speaker 2:That was Y2K preparation right for us to do that, and so I had this Y2K preparation, right? Y2k, yeah. And so everything on paper looked amazing, right, the bank balance was going up, but they were really long days developing code. And somebody introduced cocaine to me and I tried it in the past, but it didn't hook. I mean, listen, it felt great, it's cocaine. However, I didn't need it, and something happened at this time in my life where I just kind of began using it daily and for the next seven, eight years, everything was pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Everyone has started to realize I had a drug problem. However, I didn't have any consequences other than, possibly, reputation or people being concerned for me. But I was never arrested. I didn't lose my money, I didn't lose my job. Some of my relationships were affected, and then the people that interfered in my lifestyle, drinking and drugging just got in the way, and so I just kind of outcasted them. I said, all right, well, I don't need you in my life. Last thing I want to hear is somebody complaining about how I live and um, and then I was in.
Speaker 2:Then my nose stopped working, cause if you put foreign substances in your nasal cavity, sooner or later it just shuts down, and so I was taught new ways to ingest drugs and I became a dedicated crack smoker. And, um, the thing about crack is it takes you down pretty fast. And so I believed I had acquired enough assets to kind of quit my job and just kind of live a party lifestyle, and in about three months I'd given away all my possessions. Then I started this like rehab journey in and out, and there were times I really wanted to be sober, todd, like I wanted it, but I didn't realize that I needed to have something other than the desire to stop using Um.
Speaker 2:And then I landed out in Arizona on a at one facility, and one thing led to another and I found myself homeless on the streets. And, um, I'd never been homeless before, I never vanished before. I'd always, if I ever got caught or had a consequence, I was like I'm sorry, I won't do it again. But something was different this time, and one day led to two days, led to five and a half months on the streets, and I learned to keep my habit by doing any by any means necessary. And so in an ideal world, I would steal your wallet or I would, you know, boost things and go to pawn shops Uh, but a lady of the night came by and told me I can make money the old fashioned way, and it didn't take too much, um, didn't take too much of her uh describing how to make money, that I began to violate my value system for money, and so I lived a life in the sex industry and it was not anything. It was horrific and shameful and I was never going to talk about it.
Speaker 2:And so I share that, because on August 15th I did it again. I came off the streets and I used again, after convincing my family that I wouldn't, and um, because I didn't know I'd vanished. What I didn't know is that my family technically had almost a like a memorial service for me, cause I just they didn't know where I was, um, and then I fly back and I did it again, um, and so my only best decision was to end my life that day, um, but uh, god had a different plan. So that's kind of the long journey to get you to where we're at, um, but they, august 16th is a very significant day for me, um, and what's wild is, even though the day I remember, uh, I suffer from an illness that doesn't give a crap how long I've been sober, just doesn't care.
Speaker 2:And so it might be inspiring to others, or it might be inspiring to myself, but I got to remember that the disease of addiction and alcoholism, dude doesn't care about how long you've been sober, just doesn't. Evangelicalism, dude, doesn't care about how long you've been sober, just doesn't. What's wild is, the longer that I'm away from a substance of choice makes me think that I'm back in control, and so it's a very dangerous place for me, because I always forget and I pick up again. So luckily, it's been about 17 years. Um, that I haven't, but I have a course of daily living that leads me into a what we call a place of immunity.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, very passionate about that a little bit more about that. What is that?
Speaker 2:so it's um. I don't think about using um and if offered like, if you were like hey, Johnny, want some crack Like, my only thought is no thanks, Not not.
Speaker 1:Oh you know I need to make a note.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, it's kind of the language we use. Is that there's? If there's a flame, I avoid the flame. I don't put my hand on the flame. If there's a flame, I avoid the flame, I don't put my hand on the flame Right. Whereas before I would have gotten burnt and then be like is that flame hot? And put my hand on it and burn it again. Is that flame hot and burn it again.
Speaker 1:Now I avoid the flame Right. Well, and you know, when you say that God got involved, it's like, yeah, you did the pain. Part of the work, pal, the service part's next. You're not done, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's wild is you talked about the God thing. I was so convinced, without a shadow of a doubt, that there was no God at that point. There was no possible reason there could be a god of the amount of pain that lived in my skull. Um, I thought I was, I thought I was a monster. Um, I thought the world was dark. I thought all the other people in the world were evil and, um, yeah, there could. There could possibly, no, be no god after the things that happened and the things that I've done and the things that I've seen, no way.
Speaker 2:And what's wild is I met somebody who'd been in a journey like this and he talked about these two different words that I think get confused and one is atheism and one is agnosticism, and atheists don't believe and agnostics don't know, and at that point I neither knew nor believed in a god. And what was wild is that I met somebody who, used the way I did, had been to the darkness. I believed in the depth of their pain and they had a freedom, and so, just me interacting with that person, I now no longer believed, because I believed them. Now I just didn't know what they had done or or how they tapped into god and so, as wild as just you know, speaking to another you know I use language like junkie, crackhead, drunk, drunk another sufferer Like I found God.
Speaker 2:I found God in a human and then realized it wasn't the human, but it was this concept that they had tapped into. It's just a beautiful thing and God manifests, I think, daily, throughout our interactions. Sometimes God can come through a R2-D2 popcorn maker. Sometimes you get those little bumps on your arms. You're like like what's going on? This? This is a good feeling.
Speaker 1:I like this this is connection right here you know you're it's connection you tell me, um, you, you talk about your story a little bit.
Speaker 1:It reminds me, you know, mentoror, mind was used, this story, and I think it, regardless of whether or not you're a religious person or regardless of your kind of belief system, I think this story has bearing. And it's the story of the prodigal son. Oh yeah, and it's. You know, the piece of the story is that the you know, the prodigal son returns, and you know he returns and he's, he's crawling on the ground and you know he's, he's crawling because he doesn't want to like, he's humiliated, he left and he feels humiliated and he goes, and he, the table set, the bat, the buff, you know the banquet is there, and the whole thing. And he goes and he, the table's set, the banquet is there, and the whole thing. What?
Speaker 2:was it the fatted calf or the fatted goat?
Speaker 1:the fatted yeah, the fatted calf. And he gets there and his father's, like you know, I'm so very glad to see you and he said you know, I'll take scraps, I'll sit on the floor, I'll, you know, stick me in the corner in anything, just to not be kicked out. The father's like Mike, what's for you?
Speaker 2:Yes, you mentioned a word that, uh, the prodigal son, and there's also, I love the in the part of that story and just so when, when people are listening, I was raised in a, in a, a Christian faith, a Roman Catholic faith, and due to those instances I have since changed or altered my beliefs, but I've still, I believe in God, god, I just the story that gets there. There's many, there's many pathways to god. I think, um, and it's just a, it's a god that you believe in. It doesn't have to be my god, um. What's cool is, at the end, it's really just the concept of the true definition of what love is. Unconditional love is what I think of this power could be. But in that prodigal son story, the brother, right, the brother's like what the hell?
Speaker 2:I've been here all along. Where's my?
Speaker 2:party and the dad's like, yeah, but what's great is you use the word humiliation and a lot of times when you're in these journeys of recovery, you'll hear things such as humility, and I think there's this big confusion that humility equals humiliation or they're not even anywhere close. Humility is like I just don't. Is I remain teachable, or I'm like right-sized, right, I'm neither better or worse than any other human and I can always remain teachable to some other new experience. I mean, you look at it and I sorry that we, if this ever goes I say it not to speak about the extremes, but the extremes of the world we live in.
Speaker 2:It's, it's scary, todd, you know, it's this, this, these people believe this and if you don't believe this, then you're an idiot. And these people over here that look at them like well, you're an idiot for believing this and there's like there's no, there's no discourse, like we're all, we all become shut down to our own belief system that we are absolutely right and thank God that at least, at least hopefully, in today, in right now, this moment, I'm open to new experiences and new beliefs, and it's only through. Maybe you've been through something where you challenge my belief system, but I wouldn't know that if I, if I'm closed-minded and or I've labeled you as you're, uh, you know, insert this of this, right, yeah, yeah, you know the, the social justice warriors and the red hats, you know like they, they just don't see eye to eye, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, what you're saying is is that they can't even have a conversation. You know, that's the, that's the, that's the issues. They can't even really have a conversation, and I think that's that's really what we're talking about. You know, we're, we're you. You've experienced in your personal life such divides, you know being in this state and then turning around and being in a state of, like, commitment and sobriety and family and everything else. So the. I mean I think that, um, you're also talking a little bit about what happens with, to a certain extent, people who are in recovery and, if you will, normies or people who are not in recovery. Something you said that was you know, you met a person who knew the depth of your pain and could speak to you there, but it also found something you couldn't see, at the time at least, and gave you an opportunity to see something different, an opportunity to see something different and you know, I think that I am not in recovery.
Speaker 1:I'm fortunate in that way. I guess I have my own terrible, terrible, just kidding. I have my own stuff. You know, I'm a human being and, like you say, the journey is about there's no end to how much you can learn about yourself and how much you can kind of cultivate the truth of you, um, and how that that can play out in your relationships and with people that you're connected to and in the service that you're supposed to bring to this world.
Speaker 2:I think that that's, that's what that's about um, yeah, and why, and you know, even though thank you for, um, your disclosure, but I, my pain doesn't have sharper teeth than yours. I just experienced different pain. Everyone bears a cross and what's wild is that I believe we grow fundamentally on the maximum load of that cross. Whatever that is, whatever that is, and it might be a parenting load. Maybe you have a child who just really really knows how to you know, and so who am I to say? To have a parent going through a child in their own experiment of consequences is worse than living on the streets in an addiction, or maybe a maybe a mother that had to bury a daughter, like that's the most unnatural thing. Like you tell me.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying my pain of addiction is different than your grief, it's just a. What's wild is when you you always hear this, well, I always hear this like bearing witness, and what's wild is when we bear witness. We bear witness to the fact that we have overcome these issues, this pain, these consequences, these difficulties, and the bearing is I've overcome it through this path and that path now has effect for others that might need a solution, you know, and if it's, if it's recovery and it's a God concept, that's one bearing witness, but there's other bearing witnesses, and so that's why I need, I want people to continue to talk about overcoming what they do, because it just think about how many they save just by talking about it. But if we're like, if we shut down because I can't learn from you, then I'll never know that you could have bore witness or born witness. Wow, I told you I'm smart, I can't think of what, would it?
Speaker 1:be born with us.
Speaker 2:That that works right, born, bored, bared, uh, whatever. Yeah to uh to show that there's a, there's a way out of the pain and whatever that pain you're going through.
Speaker 1:So you know well, thank.
Speaker 2:God for our pain. Thank God for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're, we're, we're, we're lucky to live, you know, painful, sad moments, because on the other side of that is something that's beautiful In my opinion. I don't know if you have to do it that way, I just know that that's the way. That's my experience. You know what I mean. Like that's, the things that have brought me peace and realization and perspective are also born out of things that were pretty painful in the moment. Um, but you know the I think that the other side of that is is that you don't necessarily like. After you've had some of those experiences, I can also reflect on times in my life where I did not have to bear pain in order to have something that was a real in order for.
Speaker 1:You know God, if you will give me a brilliant realization about um my life or some circumstance.
Speaker 2:I was in Sure.
Speaker 1:But part of it was because I had the capacity for that, cultivated somewhere along the way the capacity for it.
Speaker 2:I think I focused on the pain I was speaking with and I don't remember his name, I just remember his face. But he was a mountain climber and we were talking about the parallels of the valley. You know the pain of the, the darkness of the valley and then the mountaintop.
Speaker 2:That the exhilaration, the you know, to bring in a Philly reference, the, the Rocky arms above on the top of the statue on top of the, on top of the stairs of the museum, and he was saying that, the view of the mountaintop, he says, if I was at the bottom and I took a helicopter and they dropped me up top, it's a beautiful view, beautiful view, but he's like it's the sweat and the cuts and the me wanting to quit and I won't be able to do this Of the journey up the mountain that makes the exhilaration to get to the top. So it's the, it's the struggle that makes the the beauty of the of the victory right.
Speaker 2:Not just it's like, hey, you did nothing, you win. You're like, okay, great, or I worked my butt off or something, and here you want. You're like, oh all right. Where's my next challenge? It is substance.
Speaker 1:It's depth, it's substance, it's meaning. Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's also part of the issue we run into with, especially young adults these days, where you know we've got phones and technology and all this stuff and a lot of the things that they, you and I might have had to really work for to get, it's just kind of out there, ready and available. You know they can watch anything at any time, they can get things without restriction. They've got all this stuff and then they get to a place where, I mean, even my youngest struggles with it. He's like I don't like this. He came in the other day after some you know he's had jobs and he didn't like them and he left this one and did that one. You know he's 17, almost 18. But he walked in the house the other day and he had been at school all day, went straight from school to work and it was like 10.30 at night and he walks in the door and he just looks over at me and he's like, yeah, dad, I'm a little tired.
Speaker 1:I think I'm just going to go to bed. And I was like, there you go, brother, there's some living right there that'll pay off what you're experiencing. Some living right there That'll pay off what you're experiencing right now. That stuff's going to pay off somewhere along the way.
Speaker 2:I was very similar. I don't know why this came up. I was in the car with my 12-year-old and he was talking about not everything costs money. I was like, yeah, pretty much everything. He looked down at his whatever thing from Dunkin' Donuts and he pulled out the straw and he goes this was free. And I was like no, it's not. And he goes. Well, they had them all out there. I could take as many as I wanted. I said the cost of that straw is in the drink that I just paid for. They've already factored all that into it. And then he goes. Then he goes well, what about these roads? These roads are free. And I said hold on one second. I pulled up adp and I was like I'm just showing you this for a second. I was like this is actually what daddy would get paid. And see this, what I actually get paid. What's the difference? He's like what. I was like that's the roads.
Speaker 2:I was like everyone that's what taxes are and a few other things but it's crazy to think of the mindset that, because not everything is a transaction of money or or a card, there's a cost somewhere in it and what's wild is he's gonna have his own, you know, when he finally gets a job and oh, you'll get paid x amount of dollars an hour, and then he doesn't get the x amount of dollars in his paychecks. Wait a second.
Speaker 1:I was like I'll just say thank you for the roads well, you know, if we, if we pull this back to, uh, we pull this back to the kind of recovery talk that we're having, um, you know, like you say, there was a point in time in your journey that you know, like you say, there was a point in time in your journey that you know, you didn't have any money, you didn't have anything, but you still managed to go about getting it. But it was really more about what was important to you At that time getting the next fix or what have you that, like that was the thing that was important, to have you there, like that was the thing that was important. And and until that turned and there was a glimpse of something else that might be greater and more, that was, that was your way out, that was the, that was the place. And then you turn around and reflect. It's like, wow, there's this struggle and now this height of the mountain, this, you know this piece that this I assumed that it was a piece you can you can tell me if I'm wrong but like to kind of be in the hospital and have something you can't quite identify that turns into a lifelong sobriety and, you know, commitment to service and family and everything else.
Speaker 1:Like it's not quite the top of the mountain, but it like. What is that Like I cause in my experience working with individuals, whether it's whether it's severe and persistent mental illness or it's or it's, you know, substance use or both like there's a point at which the person decides they get a glimpse of something or their perspective occurs to them and they decide that they're going to do something about this and not have to live this way anymore yeah, there's a good one, sorry the moment like what can you put your finger on it?
Speaker 2:but you mentioned two things though. Though, when I'm in the midst of my addiction, that means I am compelled, uh, my book, my thought process is aimed towards a target, um, and that target is one more right, one more to get the euphoria to now forget about that vile thing I had to do for the money. And then the high wears off and my aim is back towards that target. And so to get to that target. That's where we do things right we steal, we lie, we cheat, and until I have a different target, I have no aim. And so I didn't realize that there was another target or believe there was a better target, right. And so until I met somebody that had been through that once had the same aim as me but now had a different aim, and they looked happier, then I could ask how they aimed toward that target. Uh, but what's great is I didn't. So I was at.
Speaker 2:When I left the hospital they sent me to a psych ward, and up in pa it's called a 302, down in florida it's called a 302. Down in Florida it's called the Baker Act. In North Carolina I'm sure they have one. It's an involuntary.
Speaker 1:It's an IVC right, ivc, right.
Speaker 2:So you are a harm to yourself or others and you can no longer make decisions. So there you go, right and they take your shoelaces and they watch you shave. And there was a psychiatrist in there and I met him and you know I've been on this run and he looked at me and he goes you're not crazy, you're a drug addict. And I'm like thanks, doc, I know that, I know that. Right, it's like this is what you learned in school. I have, I'm such an ass anyhow. Um, but then he's like I think you need to go to treatment. And I said I'm not going to treatment because treatment doesn't work.
Speaker 2:I'd been to five of them, todd, I'd been there, I had tried, I'd given the old major league effort and luckily, my uh, my parents met somebody like yourself that taught, taught them about what leverage and boundaries are. And I was a 30 year old boy at that time, 30 years old, 30 year old boy trying to get back to mommy's basement Cause, remember, I'd, I'd, I'd given away all my worldly possessions, I had nothing. And she said no, holy crap. She said no, you cannot come back to this house. And so that led me to the, my next treatment.
Speaker 2:And now, mind you and I share this now that ride from the psych ward to the treatment center, I wasn't in the mindset Okay I'm, I want to be sober. Now. That was not my mindset. My mindset was I'm going to kill myself again and I just have to do it better. But I know if I speak a certain language they're going to send me back to that institution that I don't want to be at. So now I know exactly what not to say and I'm in the mindset of I'm suicidal, but I can't talk about it because I'm afraid you're going to put me away.
Speaker 2:And at that treatment center it was after hours they brought a speaker in that represented one of these fellowships and the guy was up there and he told my story. And at that time I knew what my shoes look like, because I didn't have the decency or the integrity or the confidence to look anybody in the eye. I just looked at my shoes all the time, because that's how shameful I was. And this guy was telling my story, with a few little differences, but pretty much spot on he was a sicko too.
Speaker 1:He was a sicko right.
Speaker 2:And he was a sick. He was a sicko, right, and he was laughing about it. He was laughing about violating his sexual values for money, doing stuff that people take to their grave, and he's like, and they had the crowd yeah, the crowd it was, and I'm sitting there and I just kind of like looked up and I'm like what? Of course, I didn't say anything, but what I realized is that was the moment I stopped being an atheist. I believed, I believed him, I believed him todd, and so, yeah, that was my. That was a technically a god moment, right, some dude talking about weird stuff he does for money, um, and what I didn't realize? That God used his pain, his painful moments to prove that there was something better. And so I share all of that. Because now, that's why I speak so freely as well, because I've I've lost track of the people that have come to me after, like, these engagements or other speaking engagements or when I'm just kind of given a testimony about what recovery can be, and usually you'll see the crowd will or not.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I hope this doesn't sound egotistical when the people come up, um, oh my, thank you, thank you, thank you. Then there's always a few staggers. They don't want to say anything in front of the crowd, and then they come up and they're like me too. I'm like sweet, you know, thinking that I'm going to. They're thinking they're going to be judged by me. I'm like dude, get in line, there's tons, there's tons of us, and what's wild is so. Now, my testimony proves that recovery can work, and so it was my painful moments that are. It's the. It's the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced, because I'm placed in a unique position to help someone, and it's only by talking about the stuff you don't want to talk about and you have it, and this guy has it and this girl has it, but it's the. We're taught not to talk about these things, so I'm just, I just tell everyone talk about it, get to a spot where that doesn't define you and you can use that to be the greatest asset you've ever been given.
Speaker 1:I love that quote. I'm going to put it on a T-shirt, put it on the back of my car.
Speaker 2:You'll have to remind me what I said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the other thing when it doesn't define you, when this pain and these experiences and the shame it doesn't define you, you can tell the story because it doesn't define you. You know what I mean. I have aspects of my own pain, my own story. I have those places where it's like I share it now because I'm not shamed by it. Whatever I thought of myself as a result of that experience when it happened is not what I think of myself now and I have a lot of perspective and understanding about, oh you know, this tapestry of my life and my personality and why I'm here on the planet in the first place and all those things.
Speaker 1:You know these realizations and then you get to a little older and maybe potentially a little wiser and perspective and deep personal work goes along with that as well. And I think that you know, when we started this, it was like and I was so touched that you know, you have a prayer practice. You wake up in the morning, you have a prayer practice. You wake up in the morning, you have a prayer practice and you're like, for some reason, I showed up and then I was like, hey, let's do the podcast recording. We've got to do this. And here we are.
Speaker 1:But I think what you're also talking about is that, as opposed to having to endure these moments and then have respect and all that stuff, what you arrive at eventually is practice. It's a daily practice that reminds you about your relationship to your higher power, whatever that may be, and the way in which you choose to live your life every day, because that's an important practice, regardless of whether you're a person that's in recovery from substance or not. It's a critical practice, in my view, if you want to have anything that feels substantial in your life. That's my take on it.
Speaker 1:I would agree 100% with your take on it you know I only invite people, guests on that I agree with. It's a real pleasure. I just enjoy so much every time we get to spend time and just chat and hang out. Maybe we'll talk about Star Wars, or maybe we'll talk about the deep meaning of life or whatever it is, but it's just such a pleasure to have you on the show today, to be with you and for you an honor to hear your story and be able to share it with an audience of people. It's got such tremendous power. This has been BBVM 1037, the voice of Asheville Mendenhall Planners, with Todd Weatherly. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 1:God bless you Thank you, thank you, thank you.